Interview
With
An Exiled Father

There are hundreds of thousands of fathers and children torn from each other in the U.S. and throughout the world through bias and corruption in the court systems. The numbers keep growing. Nevertheless, the apathy continues. There have been no real solutions and little or nothing is being done to make those responsible also held accountable. This interview with a self-exiled father trying to survive under these conditions provides an insight to this continuing holocaust.

Question:
Can you provide us with a little background to your situation as starting point?

Answer:
My exile stems from a 1990 divorce when the court awarded the children to an abusive mother through the lies and perjury it accepted and an insurmountable debt from the divorce judgment. Both provided the means for the judicial system to continue its atrocities when the implications of its own involvement to intentionally destroy my life and the lives of my children were revealed. That sums it up as briefly as it can be put.

Question:
The first response to your allegations would naturally be if you could prove all of what you just said.

Answer:
I wouldn't have made the statement unless it all could be proven. The documentation exists in voluminous files that are almost a life's work.

Question:
All right. Let's start with a little history. How long were you married and how many children do you have?

Answer:
I was married for a total of nine years with the last two going through the divorce process. My two sons are now 16 and 14. They were born in 1983 and 1985.

Question:
You mentioned a divorce process. Can you explain what happened during that process?

Answer:
It actually began before any litigation was filed. But let me tell you what I was like before the all that happened.

My life was very straightforward with defined goals. In general, I worked hard at college to graduate in three years and volunteered for the draft to do what was right for being a U.S. citizen. But in a sense, I was naïve. I thought I owed my country something. So I did my time in the army and went to Viet Nam. Afterward, my plans were to go to graduate school, but that changed. My two years in the army meant that others who hadn't served were already two years ahead of me in their careers. Consequently, I decided to take the job for which I interviewed just prior to volunteering for the draft. The intent at this point was to stay single and plan for the day I would have children so that I could provide for them in every way. I started at the bottom of the corporate ladder and worked hard to be promoted to good paying sales management positions.

Along the way, I met my ex wife. I wasn't that interested in her at first. Her life style was based around a party attitude. But I believed her when she said that she wanted to change and wanted me to teach her to be more responsible. Along the way, she went out of her way to appear that she wanted to do that and make everything between us go well. However, the day we were married that changed. And I am serious. It was actually the day we were married. She wanted to be controlling while still being irresponsible. When I refused to allow her to make me participate, she became abusive.

Question:
What do you mean by abusive?

Answer:
When I refused to allow myself to be controlled, she would be emotionally and verbally abusive. If that didn't get a response, and it rarely did, she became physically abuse.

Question:
How did she become physically abuse?

Answer:
Trying to kick me between the legs was her favorite method.

Question:
Did you do anything to deserve it?

Answer:
All I did was either not respond to her abuse or tried to be logical with a matter of fact statement.

Question:
Can you give me an example of a situation where she became abusive?

Answer:
Yes. There were the times that I did not want to associate with her friends for one reason or another. Some of them were alcoholics, others took drugs, and many had other major character flaws. I didn't feel that I had to be a part of that. Yet, when I said that I did not want to join her and be with some of these people, she would start complaining. The complaining started with snide comments. Then, it went to threats that were sometimes mixed with crying. Then, it turned into threats, again. Withdrawing sex was one threat. Another was doing something like going off on her own to try and make me worry. I remember one time she stayed in a hotel all night after I refused to go with her to a party. The party was with a group of her friends that were less than desirable to be around.

There were also times that her abuse went to violence. I remember her trying to kick me between the legs, then of all things, using my son as a shield in front of her thinking that I would retaliate. Of course, I didn't. But I did demand that she leave the house. She ran out with my son to the neighbors. After regaining my composure from the attack, I went to the neighbors to get my son and not her. When I arrived, it was obvious that she had turned the story around so that I was the abuser. I could see it on the looks of my neighbor's faces. But it was none of their business, so I said nothing. I simple began walking my son to the door to return home. At this point, she decided to follow. I will never forget what she said at the door as we left. She turned and told neighbors that if they heard a big bang, then I had taken one my hunting guns and killed her. The statement was so sick that all I could do was shake my head in disgust. But during the divorce trial, it was apparent that she had started many such rumors and she had people restating her rumors as fact at the trial. I took great pains in getting to the bottom of those lies after the divorce.

Question:
How old was your son at the time?

Answer:
Only about three.

Question:
Can you remember anything else your ex wife did to either control or secretly attack your integrity?

Answer:
Oh yes. At the divorce trial, I learned that she had concocted a story about me starting a fight with some guy while I was taking junk to the dump one Saturday. She made this all up from what I had said about the man being rude and cutting into the line of cars waiting to unload. I tracked this lie that she started through three families around the neighborhood after the divorce.

Along with this, there were her many methods of control. Twice she claimed to have seen a lawyer to file for divorce to use divorce as a method of control and making me jump at her every whim. And of course, this meant seeing her friends who thought lying and cheating, among other things, were a way of life to be proud of. I didn't even want to know them. As a result, I never did learn some of their names. Some of these were her friends that took drugs

Question:
Did you ever loose your temper?

Answer:
Of course, I did. However, it was very rarely since it was so counterproductive. My typical response was to walk away before that happened. But where could one go while living in the same house with a woman who would follow you around to continue her abusiveness?

Question:
Would you protect yourself with force?

Answer:
For survival? Yes, without a doubt. I have as much right to live as the person attacking me. Wouldn't you agree?

Question:
Do you consider yourself the perfect person? After all, it is a pretty bleak picture you are making of your ex wife and I haven't heard anything negative about yourself.

Answer:
We all have flaws, and that includes me. If you want me to say something positive about the ex, she was a cosmetologist or in other words, a hairdresser. She was good at that.

Yet, her good points and my faults are not relevant. I am sure even Hitler had some good points of his own. The reason for this interview is to describe the background and atrocities that were committed to destroy my life and the lives of my two sons. Neither the ex's good points nor my flaws have anything to do with that. Nor can they possibly be made to justify the horrific things that were done.

Question:
Aren't you making this all out to be worse than it actually is?

Answer:
That depends on what value you place on life or the quality of life. If you prescribe to anything like the atrocities on my children and me as being anywhere near normal, then you are welcomed to enjoy that hell. That would change your perspective.

Question:
OK. Your marriage changed on its very first day. Now, you are trapped and seem committed to make it work for whatever reason.

Answer:
For my children.

Question:
All right, then. For your children. When was the breaking point that made divorce eminent?

Answer:
The breaking point came after my second son was born. The ex was even transparent when she was pregnant with my first son. She used the pregnancy for recognition and praise. That's all the children meant to her. She was selfish and only thought of herself. She would bask in the praises, but would accept almost none of the responsibilities without constantly complaining. She wasn't interested in having a family.

Shortly after we moved to Chicago, the ex told me that she knew that she was several months pregnant with our third child. She wanted an abortion. As a father and having no say in the matter, she went ahead with me being forced to support a decision I didn't believe in. She claimed that the pregnancy was not her fault. Knowing her history of being careless, I still doubt that today. In fact, she turned it around and blamed me. In the process, she said that she would not include sex in our marriage until I had a vasectomy even though I knew that more children were in my plans. She had known that before we were married. In fact, I asked two straightforward questions before were married exactly as I am putting them here. They were do you believe in divorce and are you against having children. Her answer was a definite no to each. If it had been otherwise, I would not have married her. The lying had begun back then without me knowing about it.

I waited for almost a year before going through the vasectomy. Considering her unstable mentality, sex with her was not an attractive issue anyway. Today, when I think about women claiming that their body is theirs to abort a fetus at will, I also think about me being forced into a vasectomy. Women alone cannot be allowed to control the reproductive process just as they cannot be allowed to parent children alone when there is a father who wants to be involved. Men must have equal rights in the matter.

Getting back to the marriage, abusiveness became more concentrated on my second son than on the oldest. When I came home from work, I saw bruises on him that were not a part of what could happen in a routine day. Rather than report her, I wanted to handle the matter privately. I began to ask my mother to be around to baby-sit as much as possible. That diminished the times that the bruises occurred.

Around that same time, my ex told me one night that she liked to play with my youngest son's erection that occurred on occasion during diaper changes. She also confessed to taking showers with my oldest young son who was about five at the time. She liked him to touch her vagina. I was aghast at this. When I told her that this was not normal behavior for a mother or anyone else, she tried to cover it by saying that the wife of her former boss did the same thing. I was, again, shocked. This is when I decided that she must seek professional help. That is when the breaking point that you mentioned a while ago started to unfold.

Question:
Can you provide some details?

Answer:
At first, she refused to stop her deviant behavior and continued to insist that her sexual abuse of the boys and other types of abuse were not inappropriate. Then, after broaching the subject a number of times carefully as not to arouse further abuse toward me, she said that an appointment would be made with a psychologist. This took more than a month and was only after I said that she could select who ever she wanted.

A few days before the appointment was finally made, an incident happened at the dinner table. My oldest son refused to eat his peas. Personally, I agreed with him since I don't like peas either. But my ex went into a rage and started reaching for him. Before I could stop her, she had yanked him from his chair with such force that he was banged against her. I quickly took him away from her before she could strike him. By this time, he knew that his mother was going to hit him, so he was squirming as he slid to the floor. I intended to give him a light spanking that he would hardly feel to placate my ex. It turned out that he was aware that that he might be spanked, but he was not aware that it was only to prevent his mother from harming him. So he rolled on his back on the floor. At this point, I gave him a very light slap. In all the commotion, he had begun crying. So, I brought him up to his room gave him a kiss and hoped he would be feeling better later when things got back to normal.

Later that evening, it was apparent that my son was getting a black eye. My ex blamed me for it. The only way it could have happened is when she yanked him from the chair.

Question:
What made you think that your ex wife was going to seriously hurt your son?

Answer:
She had a history of sick methods of harming him. For instance, she had one of those big wooden mixing spoons that she hit him with regularly. She was even depraved enough to draw a smiling face on it and call the weapon "Mr. Spoon." She made a common utensil into a demon intent on harming my son.

Question:
Why didn't you do anything about this kind of punishment?

Answer:
I did the best I could to prevent her from using it just as I tried at dinner with the incident of the peas that night. But I couldn't be there all the time. I had to go to work, too. If I was to stay married, then therapy was the only way to make her a better mother.

And by the way, when I was later blamed for my son's black eye, her lies changed the facts about that incident at the dinner table. The peas became potatoes in her story and she claimed that guests had originally been invited for dinner that evening. Both show that her lies of this incident being concocted and one of them can be irrefutably proven. However, I won't say how at this point, because she would probably create another story just to try and talk her way out of her existing perjury.

Question:
So what happened with this therapist she saw?

Answer:
I remember my ex calling me at work the day she had the appointment with the therapist asking me to take her. My response to decline since I felt that it was time that she needed alone. But then, she became insistent and rather than risk her not going, I said that I would drive her.

When we left the house that night, my oldest son asked where we were going. I recall distinctly what my ex said to him. Her response was that she was going to see a doctor, because she was sick in the head. My stomach turned overhearing her say such a thing to my son. But I said nothing as usual, because it would do no good.

When we arrived at the therapist, we waited in the reception room for a while until the psychologist came out and introduced herself. She, then, invited me into the session. But I told her that I was not interested thinking that the time should be devoted to my ex. At this point, the psychologist responded in a way that I would only comprehend later. She said that there would be time that I would have to see her. At that point, I only considered her comment very strange and shrugged it off.

As a sideline, it wasn't until later that I learned why the ex had chosen this particular psychologist. The pastor of the church we attended had suggested the psychologist. Apparently, the ex was continuing her behavior of spreading lies and had told him that I was abusing her and the boys. He had never bothered to check to see if it was the truth. Instead, he suggested this psychologist. The man had no scruples or integrity.

After my ex's meeting with the therapist we drove home. My mother had been baby-sitting, and the ex wanted to go out for coffee. I had worked all day and wanted to stay home. So, she went out for coffee with my mother while I stayed with the boys.

Question:
Let me understand this. Your wife at the time was accusing you of abusing your son and, then, she goes off leaving you alone with the children?

Answer:
Yes. I took care of the boys quite often. Much of the time it was because my ex really didn't want to be with the children. She would rather do other things. It was me that wanted to bring them along when we went out. She never wanted to take them out, or for that matter, buy them anything. As you probably have already ascertained, me taking care of the boys with the ex's full knowledge and even desire meant that she was lying. After all, no one in their right mind would allow a child abuser to be alone with their children.

Question:
You said that your ex wife liked to do other things. Can you explain that?

Answer:
She had never lost her desire to party. She only changed the methods. Her main interests were to be social rather than home oriented. By that I mean she would rather be at a party, have a party or be with others rather than be a mother. So, while I worked, I had to fill that role most of the time, too.

Question:
Continue with what happened after she saw the psychologist.

Answer:
The next day, when I was at work, the ex wife called. She was on her way to Milwaukee from where we lived in the Chicago area. She had stopped at a rest stop to make the call. She confessed to lying to the psychologist about me abusing my oldest son. She also said that the psychologist had told her that she would have to report it. There would most likely be an investigation. I was in a slight case of shock over hearing this, but tried to ignore it. After all, none of it was true. Therefore, nothing would happen. After the phone call, I became more upset that she had now created a situation directly involving me in her lies. In the past, I had the feeling deep down that she was bad mouthing me every time I refused to be controlled or manipulated. But this was the first time I had been attacked directly in this manner. It was a new method of her being abusive, but using the system to do her bidding to attack me.

Question:
What happened next after she called you about lying to the psychologist?

Answer:
As I recall, it was almost two weeks for the investigator to arrive from the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services, also known as the DCFS. I had just gotten home when the ex told me that he had stopped by earlier and would be coming back shortly. When he arrived, I asked him questions about what constituted abuse. He seemed intent on talking about his beliefs as a survivalist instead. He apparently was also in the army or army reserve. I didn't ask which, because I wasn't interested.

Question:
What do you mean by survivalist?

Answer:
It's one of those people that believe that there will be a nuclear war or some other catastrophic event that will end the world. Therefore, they are prepared for it with weapons, food and shelter.

Question:
Didn't you find that rather strange?

Answer:
The entire discussion was strange and pointless. If he made a report on the discussion, it certainly had to be concocted for the most part. However, he only mentioned two things that I remember well.

He asked if I had been in Viet Nam. Upon learning that I was he tried to sell me into going to some local war memorial over and over again. That was even after I told him that I had left the war far behind me. The other thing he mentioned was that hitting a child in the head was dangerous and he knew of a child that was brain dead because of it. That made me angry, because it appeared that he was literally accusing me of abuse. Of course, I didn't say anything about what the ex's abuse, because I still wanted to handle it privately.

Question:
How did the meeting end?

Answer:
His comment as he walked out the front door was that there certainly was no abuse done.

Question:
But I take it that the situation with the DCFS didn't end here?

Answer:
You're right.

Around this time, the ex had decided to go to meetings where allegedly abused women and told their stories. I think the psychologist got her involved. Again, I didn't care. She could do what she wanted. I wasn't the controlling type and only became concerned when it directly effected the boys or me. The upside to the meetings was that she might learn what abuse really was after throwing me into a false abuse allegation. In fact, she used to tell me how women claimed to have had their arms broken by spouses as well as other bodily harm. My response was to hearing these types of stories from her was confirming that there really was abuse out there. However, in the end, she was attending the meetings for a diabolical reason.

Question:
What was that?

Answer:
She was gathering information to make false allegations of abuse and use the methods learned at the meetings to try and make her lies believable.

Question:
What kind of methods were they?

Answer:
The primary method was learning to present herself as the downtrodden woman who was controlled and beaten mentally, emotionally and sometimes physically by her spouse. She became quite good at it as I was to learn later. Aside from that, she used the same old tired phrases that sounded convincing. They were phrases that made her look like the victim.

Question:
What was your response to this?

Answer:
There were only two choices. The first was to leave her, the other was to try and fix the horrible mess she was creating. I decided to try and fix it. I took both boys out for their birthdays that year on the same day since their birthdays were only a week apart. At the same time, I had passport photos taken with the intent of taking the family to Europe. Afterward, the ex learned about the photos and ran off with the boys to a women's shelter claiming further abuse and that I was going to run away with the boys.

Question:
How did she find out about the photos and didn't she approach you about them?

Answer:
She was always snooping around trying to control my every move, which is quite contradictory about her claiming that I was the one controlling her. I learned later that she had used the redial on the telephone to reach at least one of the photographers that I had contacted. And no, she did not approach me. She just continued her abusiveness.

I might also add that it was actually me that feared that she would steal the boys. I remember sleeping on the floor in their bedroom one night to prevent just that. Again, the women's shelter had taught her to turn things around to become the victim rather than the tormentor.

Question:
Tell us about the women's shelter.

Answer:
She was being hidden in homes for several weeks with the boys and the only way that I could have contact with my own children was if the shelter decided to forward my messages that I wanted to reach them. Then, and only then, the ex might return the call. But when she did, all she did was make further accusations and try and start an argument.

Question:
What ever happened with the investigation with the DCFS?

Answer:
That department took her lies hook, line and sinker. As a result, they came back with a determination that I had probably abused my son, but that they could not prove it. It didn't matter to me, it was the same thing as far as I was concerned. They were nothing more than paid assassins of the state intent on destroying the lives of innocent people.

Question:
Those are pretty harsh words.

Answer:
All right. You tell me. What part of statement isn't true? The part that they were not paid by the state? The part that they were assassins and had the intent of destroying innocent lives? You can't dispute that all of it is true.

Question:
But wasn't their department in the business of saving people from being abused? Your case could have just fallen between the cracks.

Answer:
That is no excuse. If you doubt that, go through the same hell. What the DCFS did was no less than murder. Imprisonment for those involved would be too kind.

Question:
OK. Let's get back to the woman's shelter and the DCFS.

Answer:
After approximately several weeks of hiding under false pretenses in the what turned out to be a number of homes volunteered by conspirators with the woman's shelter, the ex had hired an attorney to file for a hearing claiming that I was abusive. That means that I had to hire an attorney, too. At the day of the hearing, several events took place. I will never forget or forgive them for being dragged through the mud.

The first was a meeting with the ex and her attorney. Her sister and what turned out to be a woman from the shelter were there, too. During the meeting, they had the gall to bring up any little trivial point to try and find a way to condemn me. They even tried to insinuate that because I was in Viet Nam, I had a tendency toward violence. The upshot of the meeting was that they wanted me to go and seek an evaluation for being violent with a psychologist. My attorney, like all of them being hoodwinked by false allegations and caving into them, said that I should agree. I didn't know any better, but the attorney should have. These women were well organized in propagating false allegations.

Question:
What do you mean well organized?

Answer:
I thought an evaluation of me being abusive would be a waste of time. As it turned out, the person giving the evaluation was the very same psychologist that my wife had falsely reported the abuse. Before even starting any questioning in an evaluation, this psychologist said that there was no way I was going to leave without being found abusive. She would make sure of it. I had been set up.

Question:
That's hard to believe.

Answer:
Believe it! And believe this, too. Year's later, after the divorce, I called a family counseling center where I lived in a different city. My thought was to learn more about abuse and be a volunteer. The director was a woman who invited me in for an interview. During the interview, she said that some men were referred to their center by the court and a few came in themselves for evaluating their abusiveness. Since they were male, each of them was automatically declared as being abusiveness. I had to bite my tongue to control my outrage at the lives she must have ruined in the meantime. She had even volunteered this kind of information without me leading up to it. She was proud of her atrocities!

Question:
I would assume then, you have little regard for woman's shelters.

Answer:
I believe that they all should be thoroughly investigated. A shelter that is found guilty of being involved in any way of false allegations should have all their staff sent to prison for the length of time their allegations would have harmed someone. That would probably mean imprisonment for life. There is not excuse for these kinds of people being allowed to walk the streets.

Question:
You said there was a second incident that day of the hearing?

Answer:
Yes. While I waited for my attorney to arrive for the hearing, the attorney for the ex had bent down near a little boy not much older than four and pointed at me saying that I was an abuser of small children. That attorney deserves to rot in hell for doing that to me and the child.

Question:
Did anything else come out of the hearing?

Answer:
Actually, nothing came out of the hearing. The hearing never materialized. The other demand by the ex was that I would agree to joint marriage counseling with her. I agreed to it without any reservation. There was no doubt that we needed it. As dedicated as I was to keeping the marriage together for my boys, there was sincere doubt of it being able to happen.

Question:
It sounds as if any charges at the hearing were only made to force you into making concessions.

Answer:
Exactly. It was my word against the ex. But she had everyone believing her and there was no way of telling what the judge would believe. It was blackmail. Pure and simple.

Question:
So you went with your ex to get marriage counseling?

Answer:
That happened almost immediately. But there is one thing I forgot to mention. Prior to the hearing and after the ex was at the woman's shelter, she moved back into the house while I moved out of state to stay with family. That was for about a month, as I recall. Before leaving, I was warned by a police officer not to be baited in returning to the home and being falsely accused, again. I had no intention of allowing this to happen. So, when my ex called for me to drive home and see her, I refused. There was no way I was even going to cross the state line to allow her to say I was any where near the house. As it turned out, she wanted to see me and would drive up. When she did, we had dinner and spent the night together in a hotel room she had rented. The very next week, she called and again to say that she was not feeling well and asked if I would come home to care for the boys. I did. During this time, she was repentant for what she had done.

Question:
Obviously, being with her and caring for the children proves that you were not the abuser she claimed. Weren't you hesitant about being involved with her, again?

Answer:
Definitely. You have to remember, though, my boys were being held hostage from me and I was desperate to be with them.

Question:
Let's get back to the marriage counseling you agreed to attend with your ex. Is there anything you want to mention about that?

Answer:
There were several revelations. The counselor determined that the ex was the naturally abusive partner in the marriage, so she refused to see him anymore even though she is the one that made the final selection on who to see.

The ex also began bragging about how little it cost to use her false allegations to control me and dirty my name through the use of the woman's abuse shelter. She was quite satisfied with the results of what she had done while admitting that everything she had said badly about me was a lie. As it turned out, it only cost her or should I say our family, the price of a vase. That vase was given to one of the people that helped her hide the children from me. However, she cared little that the attorney bills I had to pay came from the same family savings. That bill was much more expensive. She didn't care little about how much damage she had done, and this was only the beginning of what was to come later. The ex also explained that her attorney had been assigned to her by the woman's shelter and made a living off of falsely accusing men.

Question:
So, you and your ex began living together in the same house with your two boys after this mess. What happened next?

Answer:
I had no desire to live in the same state that condoned such inhumane treatment of fathers and men in general. My mind was made up to move. The only question was where. The ex wanted to move back to where we had lived prior to relocating in the Chicago area. That was Milwaukee. I already had to leave my job in order to concentrate on fighting a system that believed in destroying families regardless of what that same system said publicly of how it cared about them.

Question:
What other kinds of feelings did you have at the time?

Answer:
Although I tried to hide it outwardly, my inner feelings were that the marriage was all but over. The only reason I would continue to live with the ex was for my two sons in order that they would not come from a dysfunctional divorced family. Additionally, it had already been proven that the judicial system would allow a woman to run off with a man's children and get away with it. If a divorce ensued, her running off with the children would be endorsed all over, again. This time she would have permanent control to destroy our lives.

I stayed away from her as much as I could. I made a set of friends that were completely separate from the ex. There would never be any interaction between them and her. Our lives were nothing more than roommates. I would never trust her, again. My money and my life were totally separated from her.

Question:
What was her response?

Answer:
She wanted to continue as if nothing had ever happened. But after we moved to back to Milwaukee, I began the paperwork to appeal the black mark made against me by the DCFS due to her lies and those that supported them. Her demand was to go back to living jointly. That mean joint bank accounts and her being part of every aspect of my life. She had no concept or guilt for what she had done to me. The automatic expunging of the records at the DCFS was good enough for her. It was as if her foul actions were totally acceptable.

Aside from this, the ex continued to be controlling and prying into my life. I resisted all that knowing that she was someone that could not be trusted. Her continued verbal, mental, emotional and physical abuse substantiated this. She was also very greedy. I had to pay her money not to be abusive.

Question:
What picture sticks in your mind the most from when she stole the children to hide in a woman's shelter?

Answer:
One day, while going into town, I accidentally ran into her. But I kept my distance. In the meantime, I looked over at my youngest son as she carried him. I will never forget the expression on his face that said, "Why have you been taken out of my life?"

Question:
Tell us more about the process you went through trying to clear your name.

Answer:
The first appeal was a written one. It was summarily denied. The final appeal is a hearing with a hearing officer. I hired an attorney for this one.

Question:
What happened at the hearing?

Answer:
As I mentioned before, all the way through the appeal process, the ex insisted that I should ignore the abuse allegations since they would be expunged in a number of years anyway. But then, she knew they were false and they didn't mean anything to her. It did mean everything to me. It was my love for the boys and our relationship that had been brutally destroyed by her. However, it was a different matter by the time the hearings were scheduled. She went back to her false allegations during her testimony and continued to perjure herself. And there were other aspects that made a mockery of the hearings.

The woman's shelter had to be forced to give up some of their notes regarding the period it hid the ex and my children. Much of it was whited out. But what there was of it, proved that they were lying as well to support her. They even had the wrong dates indicating that they had made up the records after being forced to produce them.

Question:
Were the concocted dates and any other lies questioned at the hearing?

Answer:
No. They were ignored and not even questioned. The information was presented in such a way that the person from the woman's shelter could not be questioned on them. Additionally, my attorney didn't push it.

Question:
This is the second time you have reference an attorney representing you not having done a very good job.

Answer:
Quite frankly, there are few out there that adequately protect a man from the horrors of false allegations by women. Most, if not all, in cases like this are worthless.

Question:
What else happened at the hearing?

Answer:
The DCFS investigator that was a self proclaimed survivalist came dressed in Army uniform. Since the time of the investigation, he had gone back on active duty. Wearing that uniform and knowing his true beliefs made a mockery of the armed services.

In the end, it was the ex's word that they decided to believe. I might add that she used what I knew were lies and perjury at the time. These have since been proven for everyone else to see in a book I have written entitled "Awaiting Justice." She claimed that the worst punishment she ever gave the boys was to put them in a corner. And as I have already discussed, her punishment was actually abuse. The book covers more of it after the divorce, and there is even a film clip to prove it.

Question:
We will get to your book, as well as the divorce issues, later. We can show the film clip at that time. Is there anything that you would like to add about the DCFS hearing?

Answer:
No, the testimony for the most part was insinuations added to the outright perjury by the woman's shelter and the ex. The only other situation worth noting might be that it was obvious that the hearing officer was biased. Her being pregnant at the time probably helped that along. When she did finally provide the result of the hearing, she upheld the false allegations.

Question:
What are your feelings about that?

Answer:
You tell me. What is a man's life worth? What is his life with his children worth? Certainly, there is punishment deserved. And if it was a long prison term, it would make those responsible pay for their crime against humanity and persuade others not to follow that path.

Question:
Tell us more about the time after you moved back to Milwaukee.

Answer:
Life was miserable. The marriage was barely existing. As I said, there simply was no way I could trust the ex. I had taken a job working out of Chicago and traveled there two days a week and cared for my boys for the other five. I could work out of the apartment. The ex had taken a nearly full time job at the hairdressing shop she had worked at prior to the marriage. Even though I tried to make the marriage at least hospitable, she continued her various forms of abuse. We lived as roommates with her making war at every chance she got.

Question:
Give some for instances.

Answer:
I did most the cooking and she would constantly complain that it wasn't what she wanted for dinner. I did the cleaning and she didn't like where I put my clothing. On my birthday, I had to even pay her for the gift she made me. She demanded that we have joint bank accounts after even though she insisted on keeping her own money. She wanted mine, too. And that was in addition to paying her not to be abusive and that only worked rarely. Aside from the constant mental, emotional and verbal abuse by being constantly argumentative to anything that was said, the physical abuse hadn't stopped either.

Her final method of striking at me was when I came home one day and she had gone. It was later in the day that I learned that she had filed for divorce and hidden the boys at a relative's house. It was someone who obviously endorsed her atrocities. I remember knowing where they were, but I refused to put up with it anymore. I was not going to go after her. It was then that I felt that it was better to get it over with and try to save as much for the boys as I could.

Question:
From what you have told us so far, the divorce was probably was not amiable. Can you give a brief explanation of what took place?

Answer:
I will go as far as the divorce trial itself.

When the ex moved out, I didn't stand in the way. In fact, she took absolutely everything that belonged to the boys. That meant that it all had to be replaced with as much as I could afford. Huge sums of money were starting to go to paying attorney costs that were hardly within my income. In fact, as the divorce progressed, she did everything to increase the costs of the divorce by creating the court hearings to be scheduled just to maintain her lies. Then, there were the other costs of the court appointed psychologist that supported her lies of being abused.

The ex's intent was to use the boys as much as possible in continuing her control and abuse for the remainder of their lives and mine. She wouldn't even accept photos of the boys and I having a good time together. Her previous lies to the DCFS and the criminal support of the woman's shelter supported and empowered her deceit.

During the process of the divorce, she would not provide proper clothing for the boys to wear when they were with me whether it was for an event or for the going outside to play. She would discourage them from bringing toys to play with. Another trick was to offer them something like ice cream rather than going on visitation.

Question:
Let me interrupt here. You used the word visitation, but don't the courts call it shared placement?

Answer:
Yes they do. But it is no more than visitation, because there is no real way the other parent is really involved in their children's lives. It is like the children were held hostages for their father to be with only at certain times to watch them grow up from afar. The term "shared placement" is only a method of getting away from the hideous truth of the matter.

Question:
OK, go on with what you were saying.

Answer:
As I was saying, the ex's methods of making the lives of the boys and myself miserable were inexhaustible. She even stole the bikes I had to buy to replace the ones she had taken with her. And it didn't stop there. She refused to provide information as to any of their school activities or extracurricular events like soccer. And that was even I was the person that initially got them involved in sports before soccer. The divorce judge also had inexhaustible excuses to protect her through all of this. For instance, he endorsed spending countless of hours chasing down what extracurricular activities the ex put the boys in to keep them busy so she could have her own fun. That prevented me from attending the functions, because I had no clue as to the events almost all the time. Another example is regarding the false abuse allegations. The divorce judge was dumb enough to rebuke the abuse done to me by the ex by saying that it was silly thinking that a 120 lb. woman could hurt a 180 lb. man. That proved his bias beyond any doubt and one only has to check out a woman's prison to prove that.

Question:
In an American divorce with custody of the children being an issue, the children are usually assigned their own attorney, usually called a guardian ad litem. Isn't that correct?

Answer:
Yes. That attorney is supposed to only be interested in the best interests of the children.

Question:
Where was the guardian ad litem during all this?

Answer:
I suppose in her office or whatever she did during the day. That is except for one visit out to the apartment I was renting to see the boys and me. She certainly did not do any serious investigation.

In fact, during our first meeting, the guardian ad litem said that she believed fathers were good for painting the house or mowing the lawn indicating that they were not meant to be custodial parents. She supported that view all through the divorce proceedings by supporting the ex's lies and perjury, as well as her abuse to the boys. She did it through no intervention and, in some cases, actively endorsing the ex's abuses.

Question:
Where was your attorney in all this?

Answer:
There were actually several that I tried and none of them were any good. They did a lot of back peddling and compromises that went nowhere. In fact, they would have meetings with the judge or go into a hearing without me but with explicit instructions only to come out and never followed them. The fact of the matter is that they were no better than the people making the lies. They endorsed the atrocities, although it wasn't overtly like those that actively supported the ex's perjury.

I remember one case off the top my head when I was told of a meeting between the guardian ad litem, the ex's attorney and my attorney. My attorney told me afterward that he did nothing more than listen rather than being outraged at the accusations.

Question:
Tell us a little more about the court ordered psychologist.

Answer:
I can give you some excellent examples of her involvement in the atrocities. During the divorce, the ex and myself along with the boys had to take psychological exams. Her thoughts on me being an abuser had already been formulated by the ex's lies. Just before a test where it showed that I was exactly the opposite of being abusive, she said that there was no way that I could fool the exam. Then, she claimed that I had been able to manipulate the exam during the divorce trial.

Another time, when she met with the boys and I, my oldest son sat next to me on the sofa. And since there wasn't room for my youngest son to sit there comfortably too, he sat across from us in a sofa type of chair. The psychologist claimed at the divorce that my youngest son sitting across from us indicated that I was an abuser. The woman was insane. And she was more than that. She used Nazi concentration camp like tactics to interrogate the boys say what she wanted.

The boys were asked the same questions about any hints of my abusing them over and over again. When they truthfully denied it, she continued to ask the same questions. It was then that the boys realized that they would not be able to leave until she was satisfied, so eventually they remained neutral and she translated this into them agreeing that I had abused them. She also promised them cookies and other treats if they would tell her I was abusive. I was appalled at this treatment of my children and to this day I believe that she should be imprisoned for what she did to my sons like any other Nazi criminal for committing crimes against humanity.

Question:
Did anything else go on during the divorce proceedings that you want to share?

Answer:
Yes. There was much more even though I try not to think about it. Some of it comes to me as flashbacks. For right now though, I should add that the ex was caught with drugs in her apartment during the divorce. That was even blamed on me as having something to do with them being there. While in fact, I had seen her use drugs with friends before the marriage.

Question:
What kind of drugs and how were you supposed to have gotten them there?

Answer:
It was cocaine. And they never had to show how I supposedly been involved with the drugs in her apartment. All she had to do was say that I did and claim she had nothing to do with them. She could make up any lie without having to prove a thing and get away with it. Getting off that charge was that easy.

Question:
Did you have access to your ex's apartment?

Answer:
No. There was no way I wanted or could have had access. She was too dangerous to be around. So, they had to make up any story they could think of.

Question:
Earlier, you mentioned flashbacks. Those are normally considered to be the result of trauma, and that certainly appears to be something that you may have very well suffered through the torment directed at you. Would you agree?

Answer:
Very much so. In fact, there were two times that I sought professional help.

The first was right after the divorce. The people I saw were worthless. Nothing was resolved during my stay at a hospital. All they could do was nod their heads and look half interested.

The second time was after the divorce when the ex was still using the boys to make their lives, as well as mine, miserable. The judicial system had purposely given her that capability and supported her atrocities. And by that time, it knew that it had done so and become implicated in those atrocities. While being admitted for being a victim of the system's abuses, I mentioned that it would be better off if the boys were taken away and protected from their mother. They construed that to be that I was going to kidnap them and this was conveyed to the ex. And while in the hospital, their personnel were instrumental in just making things worse. They had no inclination how to treat a person that had been abused by a spouse and the judicial system. Their involvement was tantamount to malpractice. And oddly enough, I came across another person in a similar situation and this person was a woman.

After discharging myself that I was able to understand that I had been so ruthlessly abused by the ex and the judicial system that they had almost won in destroying me mentally. Quite frankly, anyone faced with such horrors in a divorce has every right to take the children out of the country to live peacefully. The caveat to my conviction is that leaving the country with the children should be done as last resort. I add this, because all too many times this is exactly what happens when women falsely claim abuse to run and hide the children.

Question:
Let's get to the divorce trial. What do you want to tell us about that?

Answer:
The trial was a two-week sham. It was filled with outright perjury, slanderous innuendoes and lies. The ex brought in her friends to support those lies. Therefore, their testimony was just as criminal. What's worse the judge took part in it by twisting any information that came out into a negative and showed his bias at the same time. For instance, he had the gall to ask me what kind of food I prepared for my children. Did he even bother to ask the ex the same question? No.

Question:
Didn't your attorney eliminate all the damaging information with questions of his own?

Answer:
Hardly at all. He let almost all of it stand without showing the lies and perjury. By the way there were two attorneys from the same law firm there with me. Neither one of them asked the type of questions I wanted asked to prove the lies. And when they had the opportunity to talk to potential witnesses in advance to get information to disprove lies, they didn't even bother to do that. And there are other examples of my attorney's negligence.

For instance, I caught one of them asking a wrong question and corrected him. He simply forgot it by saying that he had asked it badly. Later, a remark by one of the witnesses proved that the question was damaging to my credibility. It was if he didn't care, and there was nothing I could do about it.

Speaking of credibility, I want to mention that it was the entire reasoning for all the judge's decisions. Check it out in the transcripts. It had nothing to do with the ex having to prove a thing.

Another example regarding my attorney happened one day at lunch during the trial. Both the attorneys supposedly working for me said that it was my testimony that would decide the trial. I looked at them as if they were nuts. They weren't even asking the right questions! Consequently, the ex's attorney had a field day during each day of the trial. And that doesn't even begin to include the judge's bias.

Question:
What about the judge's bias?

Answer:
After some of the ex's testimony about abuse, the judge decided to have a meeting with us alone in his chambers to purportedly decide if the marriage was irrevocably broken. During the meeting, he looked right at me and said something that made me bite my tongue in outrage. He said that he had spanked his own children but never thrown them up against a wall which was obviously referring to his already made decision about me being abusive. I will never forget how I felt at that moment. The man should have been hung by his genitals.

Question:
Do you feel that the ex's attorney knew that he was representing lies and perjury?

Answer:
Yes. He was also encouraging it.

Question:
Do you have proof of the perjury and lies?

Answer:
Definitely and it is all irrefutable. However, I will not present it here. Someday, it might be used as evidence to prosecute those accountable. I live for that day. I also believe and have been told long ago by my sons that they will want to pursue their own prosecution when they reach the age of emancipation.

Question:
Can't you even give us an example of the perjury even if it is one of the minor instances?

Answer:
All right. During the testimony the judge asked the ex if she was a pheasant hunter and she said yes. The fact is that she never even had a hunting license. And that can be proven by just demanding that she tell you what Wisconsin county she bought the license and what year. The Department of Natural Resources will have no record of her ever having purchased a license.

Question:
Has anyone that looked at the evidence agreed that there was definitely perjury by your ex wife in her testimony?

Answer:
Yes. After obtaining the trial transcripts, I tracked down all the perjury and lies. When I had it all sorted out, I went through the all types of obstacles to have the ex prosecuted for it and have the trial verdicts reversed. During this time, one judge saw the information and told me confidentially that I had a very good case. However, he also said that even if he ordered a prosecutor to investigate, he could not insure that the prosecutor would make a meaningful effort.

Question:
I don't want to get into a lot of wordy details about the trial, so can you just tell us the results?

Answer:
Keeping it simple is probably a good idea. Regardless of what I described, there would always be more to add.

Essentially, aside from being set up in every way possible to destroy my life and the lives of my children, the court virtually committed crimes against humanity in its decision. But basically, I was given supervised visitation with my own children, made to pay child support greater than my gross income, also made to pay maintenance beyond my capability, and almost all the costs of the divorce in which the ex used to support perjury were placed on me. She only had to pay for her attorney fees and the psychologists she hired to lie for her.

Question:
Let's talk about those methods of destruction.

Answer:
I will start with the supervised visitation.

I was provided only three hours with my two boys every week at a place that hosted court ordered supervision. The reason was that the judge found me to be the abuser rather than the ex. The court's endorsement of her perjury basically resulted the abusive parent obtaining custody of the children. She was also allowed access to me to make further false abuse claims at the visitation site.

I had become nothing more than a visitor into the lives of my boys while she controlled their very futures. That future of financial stability for the rest of their lives, participating in their father's heritage and countless of other benefits were destroyed.

I also had to pay a fee to be supervised in seeing my own children. Soccer or visiting her relatives as well as any other extracurricular activity had more time with my own children than I had.

There many other hideous aspects of the supervised visitation. For instance, the judge had used it as a setup for having me persecuted and jailed. Someone also had the audacity to call this quality time with my children. Anyone thinking this belongs in a prison where they could call being let out of their cell for the same few hours I saw my children quality time. Quality time with a child means being with them all the time when those little things like answering a question at the spur of the moment can be precious. The children became permanent hostages of a brutal and uncaring mother. Worst of all, it was endorsed by an overpowering system bent on the destruction of the boys and me.

Question:
You mentioned something about being setup. What was that all about?

Answer:
The judge took away the only vehicle I owned and awarded it to the court appointed guardian ad litem to pay her bill for endorsing the ex's atrocities. It was a Ford Bronco valued by the court at $14,000.

At the time of the divorce, the program for which I was hired to work for a company at their Chicago office had fizzled due to poor management. All of us that were hired to be regional managers had more experience than the company management itself. We realized that it was a dead end. Unfortunately, I was unable to find another position in Milwaukee where the ex and the system were holding the children. The judge stated that I had to find a position that made $80,000 a year when no such job in my field existed where my children lived. Taking away the Bronco only made matters worse. I would have no vehicle to find that kind of position or any job for that matter. And I certainly would have no vehicle to even go to work. Consequently, it was only a matter of time that I would be found in contempt for not turning in the Bronco since there was no way to follow the other court orders without it. The place for supervised visitation made it convenient for the court to find me to serve papers for contempt. So, in fact, my own children were used as bait to get me to a convenient place to be served hearing papers for contempt and being jailed.

Question:
What makes you think that the judge would have put you in jail?

Answer:
He gave the boys to an abusive mother and concocted the means to set me up with the Bronco for contempt. That's only a few bits of history to show his intent.

Question:
Good point. So what did you do?

Answer:
The only thing I could do. I left the state and scrap up every bit of money that could be earned or find some other way to appeal the divorce.

Question:
But that meant not seeing your children.

Answer:
Yes, for nearly two years. It was a hell for me. As far as I am concerned, those responsible for allowing that happen owe me and my children their lives and much more.

Question:
Were there other ramifications of the terrible catch-22 situation?

Answer:
Many. Later, it led to me having to accept probation for not paying child support, because every dime had to go to pay my attorneys to continue with an appeal. I barely had any money for food and many times went without. All money went toward the appeal. And besides that, I had no where near the money to pay $1,200 a month in child support and the additional $1,000 in maintenance anyway. Anyone is free to have access any of my income statements to prove that.

Another atrocity as a result of being setup was having to sell anything of value to pay for the appeal. That included all my guns. They were sold to the first person that would buy them. I was desperate for money. Oddly enough, they were sold for about the same value I placed on them at the divorce trial and the judge scuffed at. That makes him that much more corrupt. To make matters worse, he later put me in jail for nearly a month after setting me up again. This was in regards to the guns. He gave me 24 hours to find the person that had bought the guns when I had no way of locating him. The judge knew this was an impossible task and only wanted revenge for me proving he had endorsed the ex's atrocities at the divorce trial. He had the proof right in front of him when he set this trap at the hearing. His actions, again, made him a willing accomplice in crimes against humanity in this destruction of me and the children.

Question:
You use the phrase "crimes against humanity" several times. But doesn't that apply to a defined population and not individuals?

Answer:
A family unit of a father and his children are certainly a defined population. The size of the population does not matter. They are still a part of humanity so the crimes apply.

Question:
Where is this proof of your ex's perjury now?

Answer:
After all that had happened, I wasn't dumb enough to give a corrupt court all the information on the perjury. But there is enough in the court records to show that there was perjury and the rest could be proven without a doubt in a full investigation. I have all the pertinent documents in a safe place for the boys to use sometime in the future when they decide to seek legal recourse for what was done to them, or when I can find a way to obtain justice for the atrocities done to me.

You are free to review the initial documents proving perjury. They are in the court records supporting my motion. They were presented at the same hearing the judge used to jail me regarding guns. He ignored my motion to do it. And as I said before, he became more deeply implicated in the atrocities to me and my boys.

Question:
Your total of child support and maintenance was $2,200 a month. Where does that stand now?

Answer:
Before I get to that, let's talk about the costs of the divorce trial. As I may have mentioned earlier, the only costs of the divorce not assigned to me were the ex's attorney's fees and the hired gun, bad mouthing psychologists she hired. In the meantime, I had been living off of whatever credit I had to pay astronomical fees for her continuing to pursue her lies in perjury in court during the course of the divorce. So, you would have to include thousands and thousands of dollars on top of the $2,200 per month you mentioned.

I should also add that after several years, the ex remarried. The court dragged its foot on eliminating the $1,000 in maintenance. That left $1,200 in child support each month that I continued to owe.

Question:
Where did you come up with the $1,200 each month?

Answer:
I didn't, because it was an impossibility. The good credit I had once worked so hard to achieve was totally gone, and my income during most of the time didn't even go near $1,200 gross per month. So the child support kept accruing with interest also being added on. There was nothing I could do about it. The court even refused to lower the child support and gagged me from even mentioning or proving that it was an injustice from the original divorce decree. It only accepted my income statements during that hearing with the condition it could not be used to support that I could not pay the child support.

By the way, the court also gagged my sons from recording abuses done to them by their mother. It was the newly assigned guardian ad litem's idea and it makes him just as criminal as the judge that signed the court order.

Question:
Didn't you appeal this?

Answer:
I appealed every decision. However, the judicial system as a whole had to protect itself from being implicated in the atrocities against the boys and me. So, you can imagine how successful my appeals were.

Question:
What happened with the child support issue?

Answer:
It was the last sword the judicial system had to destroy me. I had taken away its ability to make me an unwilling participant and spectator of the atrocities on my two boys. I stopped having any contact with them for that reason. I would not allow the crooked judicial and political system to have the pleasure in making me go through that torment. I haven't had any contact with the boys in person since they were 12 and 10 years old. That can be added to the other two years of no contact.

All they had left was the child support issue, and I knew that it would raise its ugly head someday. So I made plans to leave the country.

Question:
What was the final straw that made you leave the U.S. in self-exile?

Answer:
The child support agency on behalf of the State of Wisconsin filed for a hearing of contempt for not paying $1,200 a month. The attorney stated in a sworn affidavit that I was capable of paying that and the more than $100,000 arrears. Considering all the atrocities by the legal system in the past, I decided to leave. They get nothing. And that is sad for my two sons. First, my two boys are not allowed to have their father, then their future is destroyed by the destruction of their father, and finally, they don't even get the few dollars I could afford to pay. But then, it was their mother that got the money anyway and I've already shown her history of greed.

The irony of this situation is that people claim there are no debtor's prisons in the US. My experience proves otherwise. It is easy for the court to create a debt with the express intent to use it for putting someone in prison.

Question:
Was it difficult to leave the U.S.?

Answer:
Yes and no. The facts I have given make the U.S. no more than a Nazi like government with a corrupt legal system hiding behind the word "democracy." However, there are ramifications to me leaving such as never seeing my loved ones again. But it was a decision I was forced to make and had to be psychologically prepared to live with.

In terms of geography, leaving the U.S. is simple. One need only drive across the border to Canada or Mexico.

Question:
Before we started this interview, you mentioned that you had some irrefutable proof of your ex's abusiveness. But before we get to that, I would like to open up the interview to areas that you may have remembered during our conversation. Is there anything that comes to mind?

Answer:
Yes. They are incidents that happened during and after the divorce. They are not necessarily in order. For instance, during the trial, the ex began explaining how I abused her and she had to barge into the bedroom that I had barred with furniture to do it. I had barricade myself in to get away from her violence. The judge cut her from what she was saying. He did it by telling her that she was shooting herself in the foot with her testimony. He wanted to stop her from showing herself as the abusive person in the family.

Question:
It appears that the judge was helping create a case against you. Did he do anything else?

Answer:
Yes, there are many instances. I will give you an example. During the time that I was entering motions for hearings to have this nightmare corrected judicially, the judge made a comment after a hearing. I think it was just after he recused himself from the case. He said I might find a sympathetic judge out there someplace. All I wanted was an honest one. Anyway, after that, I had received a temporary retraining order to prevent the ex from being in close proximity of me. The reason was to prevent her verbal and physical abuse. A hearing was scheduled to make the restraining order permanent.

Question:
What happened?

Answer:
Before the hearing regarding the restraining order, there was another hearing in front of the judge who replaced the original trial judge. The divorce trial judge showed up and so did the ex's old attorney. Two obvious lies came out of it. The first was that the ex had sent the trial judge a letter stating that a request for a permanent retraining order had been made against her. That is the reason the trial judge showed up. He wanted to protect her in front of this new judge on the case. He had to lie to do it. The second lie came from the ex's divorce attorney.

This attorney had already written me that he was no longer involved with the case. Yet, at this hearing he said that he was. Not only this, the original trial judge suggested that he also be made the new guardian ad litem for the children.

Question:
It sounds like the entire situation was rigged against you. What was the outcome of the hearing in front of the new divorce judge and, later, the hearing for making the restraining order permanent?

Answer:
The new divorce judge protected the divorce trial judge and, therefore, became implicated himself in the atrocities against my sons and me. I might also add that the permanent retraining order was also turned down. Of course, I can't prove it, but I feel relatively sure that the original trial judge called the judge handling the retraining order to have him deny continuing it.

Question:
I get the impression that the legal case against your ex had changed drastically. Rather than the litigation being between you and her, it appears that it had become litigation between you and the judicial system. Is that a fair observation?

Answer:
In fact, you are absolutely right. The system had become so implicated in its corruption to protect her that it had to continue attacking me just to protect itself. The system could not stop me from exposing the truth, but it could easily find methods to obstruct or destroy me along the way.

Question:
Where did the appeals courts come into play regarding all of this?

Answer:
Their hands are just as dirty. They endorsed the lower court's discretion.

Question:
Do any other recollections come to mind about injustices done to you and your sons?

Answer:
There are several worth mentioning quickly. The first is how the guardian ad litem and others would always denied any of the abuses my sons reported about their mother. The standard comeback was that they were saying only what I wanted to hear.

The other comment is how miserable the physicians and schools made it to obtain any of my sons' records. If there was a way of putting an obstacle out there to prevent me from getting the information, they used it. Several even had the gall to say that a father has no right to the information. And this didn't stop with just these professional people, it includes organizations right down the Boy Scouts and soccer coaches. They are just as guilty of being a part of the atrocities.

Question:
Do you feel any of your statements are gender biased?

Answer:
No. Yet, the fact remains that what has happened is generally a male problem that is applied to fathers.

Anyone that believes that men are abused less by women should have their heads examined. That doesn't even make sense and shows bias in itself. The problem is that men normally will not report abuse, because it would only result in them loosing their children and all they have worked for in their lives. In fact, if women were judged by their own definitions of abuse, many would be in prison if given the same punishment as men. And that doesn't even include the women that belong in prison for making false abuse allegations. They should receive the same sentence as those that would have suffered if their false abuse allegations had gone undiscovered.

Question:
Is there anything else you would like to add?

Answer:
The other day, I saw a newspaper article where some politician said that fathers should pay for their children. That was the only statement made. Nothing was said about fathers should be with their children every day. The political and judicial systems do everything they can to crush that. This particular politician made the statement referring to back child support owed.

Question:
Let's start wrapping it up. Before getting to a final statement, what other comments can you add about leaving the U.S. for the remainder of your life?

Answer:
I have no idea what comments are going to be made about me back in the states about leaving and being away from my two sons. But I want to say that there has been unbearable torment every day of my life since they were taken hostage. But for those that think negatively, all I can say is that they are participating in the atrocities on my children and me. They deserve to be punished severely for that kind of thinking.

As for the attorney representing the child support agency that signed a sworn affidavit to collect the arrears in ransom owed, he belongs in prison. In fact, his affidavit stated that I could afford to pay the back child support of over $100,000. One look at my income tax filings would prove him guilty of perjury. But do you think he would ever be prosecuted? Hardly!

And yes, there is a good possibility that my face will be on a poster back home for owing back child support. But what those posters should show are those responsible and should be held accountable for their crimes against humanity in what has and continues to be done to me and my sons. They all deserve unspeakable punishment.

Question:
Someone might say that you sound bitter. Is that the case?

Answer:
Don't let wanting justice get confused with being bitter. After all, one does not ask the Jews that suffered during the Holocaust if the justices they are after are due to bitterness. The torment here is not really any different. The variation is that it is a living hell day in and day out. And it is fully endorsed by the system.

The atrocities I am relating are just as terrible as any method of harm or tragedy in the media on any given day. In one sense, it's even worse in that all the horror was preventable, yet, fully endorsed by the US. Until justice is done in my case and that of my children, any report of a tragedy or wrong in the media is meaningless for no other reason than to sell sensationalism. That's because allowing an atrocity like this proves an apathy that cannot be disguised by false concern for any other tragedy of any kind.

Question:
It sounds like you are concerned, sometimes, more about yourself than your children.

Answer:
My concern about myself is only that any benefit my sons were entitled to have with me as their father has been destroyed along with me. Remember that children only have access to what their resources provide. These resources are primarily their parents. Destroy the most capable parent and you have destroyed all the benefits that parent could provide. If you look at what could have been available for my children at one time, the available benefits that were stolen and destroyed are staggering.

Question:
Before closing, you said that you had additional proof of your statements. What is that proof.

Answer:
First, there is the fact of what one judge said, as I mentioned before. He was involved in a John Doe investigation of the ex's perjury. His comment in closed chambers, after the District Attorney's office refused to prosecute, was that I had a good case. Unfortunately, even if he ordered a special prosecutor, that person would not aggressively pursue the case. Therefore, he would have no choice but to deny continuing the investigation, since it would be fruitless.

As for proof of the ex's abusiveness, her true self came out again after the divorce trial. It is recorded in a book entitled "Awaiting Justice." As for the facts in "Awaiting Justice" being true, I have an email message from my oldest son confirming that the information is true. He read the book off the Internet and contacted me through the web site. You can read it at http://asp.flaaten.dk/linkit/default.asp?catid=176&cattitle=Magazines+&+Books

Finally, if seeing is believing, I have included a film clip of the ex abusing the boys using visitation as a vehicle for that abuse. She is manhandling my son preventing him from coming to the car for visitation. She did that after she tried to prevent them from coming to visitation by stopping them from taking their toys. It shows similarities of how she got progressively more abusive during the marriage. This film clip proves many instances of her perjury under oath.

Question:
Finally, if someone wanted to reach you, how would the do that? For instance, someone might want to pursue litigation on behalf of your sons or you.

Answer:
They can reach me by contacting the webmaster at this web site.

Question:
Thanks for having the courage to be heard under these terrible circumstance.

Answer:
Thanks.